Musicman:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

agus wrote:mengapa mereka masih mau dibohongi yahudi ?

mistik6666 wrote:terus, kalau pengin di bela sama om sai_baba, saya mesti tulis gimana??

musicman wrote:sudah 1x24 jam...thread ini saya buat..

Kristener2 terdiam..

mana pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi yg biasa kalian agung2kan dan bela mati2an?

tidak salah....kl Tuhan yesus anda bilang kalian anjing dan ular...seperti yg sudah saya ulas di thread saya yg lain...

dalam kitab 'suci', Talmudz wrote:
"Yesus adalah bajingan lahir perzinahan." (Yebamoth 49b, p.324).
"Maria adalah seorang wanita pelacur: Yesus (Bileam) adalah orang jahat." (Sanhedrin 106a] & b, p.725).
"Yesus adalah seorang penyihir dan bodoh. Maria adalah perempuan yang berzinah". (Shabbath 104b, p.504).
Juga dalam catatan kaki # 2 untuk Shabbath 104b dinyatakan bahwa dalam teks "uncensored" Talmud ditulis bahwa ibu Yesus, "Miriam penata rambut," telah berhubungan seks dengan banyak orang.

musicman wrote:sudah 1x24 jam...thread ini saya buat..

Kristener2 terdiam..

mana pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi yg biasa kalian agung2kan dan bela mati2an?

tidak salah....kl Tuhan yesus anda bilang kalian anjing dan ular...seperti yg sudah saya ulas di thread saya yg lain...

DOMBA BERTARING SERIGALA wrote:

musicman wrote:sudah 1x24 jam...thread ini saya buat..

Kristener2 terdiam..

mana pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi yg biasa kalian agung2kan dan bela mati2an?

tidak salah....kl Tuhan yesus anda bilang kalian anjing dan ular...seperti yg sudah saya ulas di thread saya yg lain...

Duh...
Jangan galak2 bro...
tuh kan, mainan baru kita pada ngilang semua jadinya...
jadi gak aci lagi neh...
bosen sama yang itu2 aja...
gak nambah pinter2 lama2....

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..


Melalui Tulisan saya ini sebetulnya hal sederhana saja yang ingin saya sampaikan, bahwa sesungguhnya Yahudi adalah Musuh Umat Kristen dan ber-Ideologi Antichrist sejati,

namun


yang Sungguh menggelitik adalah hampir semua kaum Kristen khatolik, Protestan, dsb yg saya temukan dalam forum-forum diskusi dan dalam dunia real diluar sana berdiri sebagai pembela no wahid dari kaum Yahudi (tidak usah jauh-jauh…disini gimana?)

apakah mereka (dunia Kristen) tidak cukup pintarkah?...selama ini mereka tidak ingin menumpahkan kebencian mereka kepada dunia Kristen karena yahudi memang masih membutuhkan bantuan dan sokongan dunia Kristen untuk misi mereka.

Agar saya tidak disebut mengada-ada, berikut saya lampirkan sedikit dr demikian banyak pandangan yg mewakili dr Umat Kristen yg (sebetulnya) sadar bagaimana jahatnya Yahudi kepada mereka (umat Kristen)

1. Yesus oleh Michael Keene hal 145






2. Memandang Yesus oleh Anton Wessels hal.23






coba kita lihat bagaimana pandangan mereka terhadap Yesus dan lebih menyeluruh terhadap ajaran Kristen sendiri melalui dalil-dalil dari Yahudi sendiri:


1.Yahudi percaya bahwa satu orang tidak bisa mati untuk dosa orang lain.
Jews believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html

2.Yahudi percaya tidak memerlukan korban darah untuk pengampunan dosa.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation2.html
The God-man relationship was never limited to the animal sacrifices, nor was it ever the only means by which a human being obtained forgiveness from God for sin.

3.Yesus direbus di neraka dengan Air MAni

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus in hell where His punishment is "boiling in hot semen." (Talmud, Gittin 57a; Exhibit 202) The subject is identified as Jesus in a footnote, also in the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." (Exhibit 275)

4.Umat Kristen berperingkat tidak hanya sebagai binatang, seperti sisa umat manusia non-Talmud, tapi hampir sama seperti kutu (Bang**t mungkin lbh tepat), harus diberantas.

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.

5. Yesus anak Haram hasil perkosaan Yoseph

http://revelation2368.com/chapters/toledoth-yeshu.htm

Joseph Pandera rapes Mary

At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction.

6. Yesus Tukang Sihir (ahli Nujum)

http://watch.pair.com/HRChrist.html
"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

7. Kebangkitan Yesus dikutuk
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus' resurrection is cursed: "Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 106a; Exhibit 111)

8. Umat Kristen tempatnya di neraka direbus tinja panas
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Christians in hell (in the above passage) are punished by "boiling hot excrement" which is the punishment for all who mock "at the words of the sages" (i.e. the Talmud).

9. Model siksaan Yesus di neraka dengan meminum timah panas

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html

Jesus burned, Sanhedrin 52a (Exhibit 52); manner of burning, Yebamoth 6b (Exhibit 151), verified by Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam" (Exhibit 274). He is "lowered into dung up to his armpits then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck and the two loose ends pulled in opposite directions forcing him to open his mouth. A wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth so that it descended into his body and burnt his bowels his mouth was forced open with pinchers against his wishes (Exhibit 52) And: "The death penalty of 'burning' was executed by pouring molten lead through the condemned man's mouth into his body, burning his internal organs. (Exhibit 152)





HALALNYA NYAWA/DARAH ORANG KRISTEN KARENA DIANGGAP PENYEMBAH BERHALA OLEH "MUI"NYA YAHUDI


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
* While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.

* While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

Dan masih banyak lain cacian-cacian dan kebencian mendalam Yahudi kepada Umat Kristen, Maria, maupun Yesus.

Kenapa Yahudi Bermuka manis dalam Dunia nyata kepada Dunia Kristen?

Kenapa Kristen mati-matian membela Yahudi?

Siapakah yg bodoh?


saran saya...kalau muslim2 disini ingin dibela mati-matian oleh netter2 kristen...

silahkan bilang yesus direbus air mani, kotoran tinja, anak haram, maria diperkosa, dsb...dsb....silahkan tambahkan sendiri lah...

Untuk netter2 kristen....saya tunggu pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi thd cacian mereka kepada anda, Tuhan anda dan agama anda...

silahkan ANDA BELA YAHUDI TERHADAP ARGUMENT SAYA DI THREAD INI!

Tom Jerry wrote:

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..


Melalui Tulisan saya ini sebetulnya hal sederhana saja yang ingin saya sampaikan, bahwa sesungguhnya Yahudi adalah Musuh Umat Kristen dan ber-Ideologi Antichrist sejati,

namun


yang Sungguh menggelitik adalah hampir semua kaum Kristen khatolik, Protestan, dsb yg saya temukan dalam forum-forum diskusi dan dalam dunia real diluar sana berdiri sebagai pembela no wahid dari kaum Yahudi (tidak usah jauh-jauh…disini gimana?)

apakah mereka (dunia Kristen) tidak cukup pintarkah?...selama ini mereka tidak ingin menumpahkan kebencian mereka kepada dunia Kristen karena yahudi memang masih membutuhkan bantuan dan sokongan dunia Kristen untuk misi mereka.

Agar saya tidak disebut mengada-ada, berikut saya lampirkan sedikit dr demikian banyak pandangan yg mewakili dr Umat Kristen yg (sebetulnya) sadar bagaimana jahatnya Yahudi kepada mereka (umat Kristen)

1. Yesus oleh Michael Keene hal 145






2. Memandang Yesus oleh Anton Wessels hal.23






coba kita lihat bagaimana pandangan mereka terhadap Yesus dan lebih menyeluruh terhadap ajaran Kristen sendiri melalui dalil-dalil dari Yahudi sendiri:


1.Yahudi percaya bahwa satu orang tidak bisa mati untuk dosa orang lain.
Jews believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html

2.Yahudi percaya tidak memerlukan korban darah untuk pengampunan dosa.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation2.html
The God-man relationship was never limited to the animal sacrifices, nor was it ever the only means by which a human being obtained forgiveness from God for sin.

3.Yesus direbus di neraka dengan Air MAni

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus in hell where His punishment is "boiling in hot semen." (Talmud, Gittin 57a; Exhibit 202) The subject is identified as Jesus in a footnote, also in the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." (Exhibit 275)

4.Umat Kristen berperingkat tidak hanya sebagai binatang, seperti sisa umat manusia non-Talmud, tapi hampir sama seperti kutu (Bang**t mungkin lbh tepat), harus diberantas.

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.

5. Yesus anak Haram hasil perkosaan Yoseph

http://revelation2368.com/chapters/toledoth-yeshu.htm

Joseph Pandera rapes Mary

At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction.

6. Yesus Tukang Sihir (ahli Nujum)

http://watch.pair.com/HRChrist.html
"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

7. Kebangkitan Yesus dikutuk
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus' resurrection is cursed: "Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 106a; Exhibit 111)

8. Umat Kristen tempatnya di neraka direbus tinja panas
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Christians in hell (in the above passage) are punished by "boiling hot excrement" which is the punishment for all who mock "at the words of the sages" (i.e. the Talmud).

9. Model siksaan Yesus di neraka dengan meminum timah panas

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html

Jesus burned, Sanhedrin 52a (Exhibit 52); manner of burning, Yebamoth 6b (Exhibit 151), verified by Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam" (Exhibit 274). He is "lowered into dung up to his armpits then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck and the two loose ends pulled in opposite directions forcing him to open his mouth. A wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth so that it descended into his body and burnt his bowels his mouth was forced open with pinchers against his wishes (Exhibit 52) And: "The death penalty of 'burning' was executed by pouring molten lead through the condemned man's mouth into his body, burning his internal organs. (Exhibit 152)





HALALNYA NYAWA/DARAH ORANG KRISTEN KARENA DIANGGAP PENYEMBAH BERHALA OLEH "MUI"NYA YAHUDI


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
* While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.

* While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

Dan masih banyak lain cacian-cacian dan kebencian mendalam Yahudi kepada Umat Kristen, Maria, maupun Yesus.

Kenapa Yahudi Bermuka manis dalam Dunia nyata kepada Dunia Kristen?

Kenapa Kristen mati-matian membela Yahudi?

Siapakah yg bodoh?


saran saya...kalau muslim2 disini ingin dibela mati-matian oleh netter2 kristen...

silahkan bilang yesus direbus air mani, kotoran tinja, anak haram, maria diperkosa, dsb...dsb....silahkan tambahkan sendiri lah...

Untuk netter2 kristen....saya tunggu pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi thd cacian mereka kepada anda, Tuhan anda dan agama anda...

silahkan ANDA BELA YAHUDI TERHADAP ARGUMENT SAYA DI THREAD INI!

Ini khan suatu tafsiran dari para rabi Yahudi terhadap Kristen di abad ke-3 Masehi utk mendikreditkan Kristen. Talmud bukan kitab suci (bukan firman Allah YHWH), hanya suatu tafsir atau diskusi para rabi terhadap kitab suci Alkitab Perjanjian Lama. Ini adalah pandangan pemuka2 agama Yahudi, bukan bangsa Yahudi secara keseluruhan. Dan utk ayat2 kebencian ini, mereka sudah mendapatkan hukuman dari Tuhan, yakni pembantaian Yahudi di Perang Salib dan Holocaust selama Perang Dunia II.

Kini, bangsa atau negara Israel bisa muncul kembali pada tanggal 14 Mei 1948 (lima hari lagi nih Israel ulang tahun) berkat pertolongan dari Tuhan melalui Inggris, Perancis dan Amerika Serikat yang notabene adalah orang2 Kristen. Israel (Yahudi) bersahabat dengan Amerika dan Eropa (Kristen), tapi dimusuhi oleh Islam (Palestina, Arab, Muslim lainnya)....

Yesus berkata:
"..., sebab keselamatan datang dari bangsa Yahudi." (Yohanes 4:22)

Talmud wrote:"Seorang wanita haruslah mencuci kembali dirinya kalau ia melihat apa-apa yang tidak suci, seperti anjing, keledai, atau People of the earth; seorang Kristen, seekor onta, seekor babi, seekor kuda atau orang yang berpenyakit kusta."

mistik6666 wrote:

Talmud wrote:"Seorang wanita haruslah mencuci kembali dirinya kalau ia melihat apa-apa yang tidak suci, seperti anjing, keledai, atau People of the earth; seorang Kristen, seekor onta, seekor babi, seekor kuda atau orang yang berpenyakit kusta[/size]."

hahh...??!!

musicman wrote:

mistik6666 wrote:

Talmud wrote:"Seorang wanita haruslah mencuci kembali dirinya kalau ia melihat apa-apa yang tidak suci, seperti anjing, keledai, atau People of the earth; seorang Kristen, seekor onta, seekor babi, seekor kuda atau orang yang berpenyakit kusta[/size]."

hahh...??!!

Tom jerry suka tuh...ternyata dibilang Najis ama Yahudi...selevel anjing, babi...dsb ama YAHUDI...malah dibela ampe mati...

masih menunggu pembelaan mu tom...bukan pembelaan ala "angan2"...

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..

3.Yesus direbus di neraka dengan Air MAni

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus in hell where His punishment is "boiling in hot semen." (Talmud, Gittin 57a; Exhibit 202) The subject is identified as Jesus in a footnote, also in the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." (Exhibit 275)

Talmud Gittin 56b-57a



Terjemahan:
[Onkelos Bar Kalonikus] memanggil Bileam dari antara orang mati. [Onkelos] bertanya: Siapakah yang dihormati di alam sana? [Bileam] menjawab: Israel. [Onkelos bertanya:] Bagaimana bergabung dengan mereka? [Bileam] menjawab: (Ulangan 23:6) "Selama engkau hidup, janganlah engkau mengikhtiarkan kesejahteraan dan kebahagiaan mereka sampai selama-lamanya." [Onkelos] bertanya: Apakah hukuman engkau? [Bileam menjawab]: Dalam air mani yang mendidih.

[Onkelos] memanggil Yeshu dari antara orang mati. [Onkelos] bertanya: Siapakah yang dihormati di alam sana? [Yeshu] menjawab: Israel. [Onkelos bertanya:] Bagaimana bergabung dengan mereka? [Yeshu] menjawab: Carilah kebaikan mereka. Jangan mencari keburukan mereka. Barangsiapa menyentuh mereka maka ia seolah-olah menyentuh bola matanya. [Onkelos] bertanya: Apakah hukuman engkau? [Yeshu menjawab]: Dalam kotoran yang mendidih. Seperti tiang itu berkata: Barangsiapa mengolok-olok kata-kata bijak akan dihukum di dalam kotoran yang mendidih.

Di sini kita melihat sebuah cerita dari seorang mualaf (agama Yahudi) Onkelos yang terkenal, di mana sebelum menjadi mualaf, menggunakan sihir hitam untuk memunculkan penjahat terkenal dari sejarah dan bertanya kepada mereka apakah kejahatan mereka menyelamatkan mereka di dunia yang akan datang. Dalam kedua kasus (ada kasus ketiga Onkelos yang memanggil Titus juga) orang berdosa sedang sangat dihukum di akhirat sementara Israel sedang dihargai. Agaknya, ini membantu meyakinkan Onkelos untuk masuk agama Yahudi.

Sedangkan Yeshu di sini bukanlah Yesus dari Perjanjian Baru. Ia kemungkinan besar sektarian terkemuka awal abad pertama SM yang menyimpang dari tradisi rabi dan menciptakan agama sendiri yang menggabungkan paganisme Helenistik dengan Yudaisme. Sementara mungkin Yeshu-proto Yesus beberapa sarjana menunjuk sebagai inspirasi umat Kristen awal, dia pasti bukanlah orang yang disalibkan di Yerusalem pada tahun 33 M.

Menariknya, jika ada orang yang mengklaim bahwa Yeshu di atas adalah Yesus, maka Bileam tidak dapat juga merujuk kepada Yesus karena baik Bileam dan Yeshu berada di bagian ini bersama-sama. Dengan kata lain, ini adalah kontradiksi sendiri untuk mengklaim bahwa ayat-ayat di atas adalah tentang ibu Bileam yang menjadi pelacur atau tentang orang mati muda yang merujuk kepada Yesus dan untuk mengklaim bahwa ayat-ayat di atas mengenai Yeshu yang dihukum juga merujuk kepada Yesus. Anda tidak dapat memiliki kedua-duanya.

http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesus.html#bastard

Tentang Bileam

Bileam (Balaam) adalah peramal di dalam Kitab Taurat, ceritanya terjadi menjelang akhir dari Kitab Bilangan. Setiap referensi kuno tentang Bileam menganggap dia non-Israel, seorang nabi, dan anaka Beor, meskipun Beor tidak begitu jelas diidentifikasi. Meskipun sumber-sumber lain menggambarkan berkat-berkat positif yang ia berikan kepada Israel, ia dicaci maki sebagai "orang jahat" dalam cerita utama tentang dia. Bileam berusaha untuk mengutuk Israel, umat Allah. Ia gagal pada semua tiga percobaannya, setiap kali menghasilkan berkat, bukan kutuk (Bilangan 22-24).

2 Petrus 2:15-16 Oleh karena mereka telah meninggalkan jalan yang benar, maka tersesatlah mereka, lalu mengikuti jalan Bileam, anak Beor, yang suka menerima upah untuk perbuatan-perbuatan yang jahat. Tetapi Bileam beroleh peringatan keras untuk kejahatannya, sebab keledai beban yang bisu berbicara dengan suara manusia dan mencegah kebebalan nabi itu.

Yudas 1:11 Celakalah mereka, karena mereka mengikuti jalan yang ditempuh Kain dan karena mereka, oleh sebab upah, menceburkan diri ke dalam kesesatan Bileam, dan mereka binasa karena kedurhakaan seperti Korah.

Wahyu 2:14 Tetapi Aku mempunyai beberapa keberatan terhadap engkau: di antaramu ada beberapa orang yang menganut ajaran Bileam, yang memberi nasihat kepada Balak untuk menyesatkan orang Israel, supaya mereka makan persembahan berhala dan berbuat zinah.

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..


5. Yesus anak Haram hasil perkosaan Yoseph

http://revelation2368.com/chapters/toledoth-yeshu.htm

Joseph Pandera rapes Mary

At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction.

tom jerry wrote:Sedangkan Yeshu di sini bukanlah Yesus dari Perjanjian Baru

hamba tuhan wrote:

tom jerry wrote:Sedangkan Yeshu di sini bukanlah Yesus dari Perjanjian Baru

sebenarnya siapa seh Yang Memberi Nama Yesus?... maria atau yusuf????

Menurut Matius 1:20-25, malaikat Tuhan bertemu dengan Yusuf dan memerintahkan Yusuf
untuk memberi nama Yesus kepada anak yang akan dilahirkan oleh Maria.

Tetapi menurut Lukas 1:28 malaikat Tuhan bertemu dengan Maria dan memerintahkannya untuk memberi nama Yesus pada anak yang akan dilahirkannya.

lukas 1:31 Sesungguhnya engkau akan mengandung dan akan melahirkan seorang anak laki-laki dan hendaklah engkau menamai Dia Yesus.

lukas 2:21 Dan ketika genap delapan hari dan Ia harus disunatkan, Ia diberi nama Yesus, yaitu nama yang disebut oleh malaikat sebelum Ia dikandung ibu-Nya.

Tom Jerry wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:

tom jerry wrote:Sedangkan Yeshu di sini bukanlah Yesus dari Perjanjian Baru

sebenarnya siapa seh Yang Memberi Nama Yesus?... maria atau yusuf????

Menurut Matius 1:20-25, malaikat Tuhan bertemu dengan Yusuf dan memerintahkan Yusuf
untuk memberi nama Yesus kepada anak yang akan dilahirkan oleh Maria.

Tetapi menurut Lukas 1:28 malaikat Tuhan bertemu dengan Maria dan memerintahkannya untuk memberi nama Yesus pada anak yang akan dilahirkannya.

lukas 1:31 Sesungguhnya engkau akan mengandung dan akan melahirkan seorang anak laki-laki dan hendaklah engkau menamai Dia Yesus.

lukas 2:21 Dan ketika genap delapan hari dan Ia harus disunatkan, Ia diberi nama Yesus, yaitu nama yang disebut oleh malaikat sebelum Ia dikandung ibu-Nya.

Kedua2nya, baik Yusuf dan Maria. Yusuf bermimpi disuruh malaikat Tuhan menamakan Yesus, Maria berhadapan langsung dengan malaikat Gabriel yang datang ke rumahnya disuruh menamakan Yesus... Keduanya memperoleh info dan instruksi yang sama... Ini masalah kecil dik ht riska...

Tom Jerry wrote:Yusuf bermimpi disuruh malaikat Tuhan menamakan Yesus

hamba tuhan wrote:1.

Tom Jerry wrote:Yusuf bermimpi disuruh malaikat Tuhan menamakan Yesus

Matius 1:20, malaikat Tuhan bertemu dengan Yusuf dan memerintahkan Yusuf
untuk memberi nama Yesus kepada anak yang akan dilahirkan oleh Maria.

mana dalam matius yusuf bermimpi dek tomtom??????

hamba tuhan wrote:2. kenapa matius dan lukas lain versi menceritakan masalah ini dek tomtom????[/color]

TOM JERRY:
Ini khan suatu tafsiran dari para rabi Yahudi terhadap Kristen di abad ke-3 Masehi utk mendikreditkan Kristen. Talmud bukan kitab suci (bukan firman Allah YHWH), hanya suatu tafsir atau diskusi para rabi terhadap kitab suci Alkitab Perjanjian Lama. Ini adalah pandangan pemuka2 agama Yahudi, bukan bangsa Yahudi secara keseluruhan.

TOM JERRY:
Dan utk ayat2 kebencian ini, mereka sudah mendapatkan hukuman dari Tuhan, yakni pembantaian Yahudi di Perang Salib dan Holocaust selama Perang Dunia II.

TOM JERRY:
Kini, bangsa atau negara Israel bisa muncul kembali pada tanggal 14 Mei 1948 (lima hari lagi nih Israel ulang tahun) berkat pertolongan dari Tuhan melalui Inggris, Perancis dan Amerika Serikat yang notabene adalah orang2 Kristen. Israel (Yahudi) bersahabat dengan Amerika dan Eropa (Kristen), tapi dimusuhi oleh Islam (Palestina, Arab, Muslim lainnya)....

TOM JERRY:
Yesus berkata:
"..., sebab keselamatan datang dari bangsa Yahudi." (Yohanes 4:22)

TOM JERRY:

Talmud Gittin 56b-57a



Terjemahan:
[Onkelos Bar Kalonikus] memanggil Bileam dari antara orang mati. [Onkelos] bertanya: Siapakah yang dihormati di alam sana? [Bileam] menjawab: Israel. [Onkelos bertanya:] Bagaimana bergabung dengan mereka? [Bileam] menjawab: (Ulangan 23:6) "Selama engkau hidup, janganlah engkau mengikhtiarkan kesejahteraan dan kebahagiaan mereka sampai selama-lamanya." [Onkelos] bertanya: Apakah hukuman engkau? [Bileam menjawab]: Dalam air mani yang mendidih.

[Onkelos] memanggil Yeshu dari antara orang mati. [Onkelos] bertanya: Siapakah yang dihormati di alam sana? [Yeshu] menjawab: Israel. [Onkelos bertanya:] Bagaimana bergabung dengan mereka? [Yeshu] menjawab: Carilah kebaikan mereka. Jangan mencari keburukan mereka. Barangsiapa menyentuh mereka maka ia seolah-olah menyentuh bola matanya. [Onkelos] bertanya: Apakah hukuman engkau? [Yeshu menjawab]: Dalam kotoran yang mendidih. Seperti tiang itu berkata: Barangsiapa mengolok-olok kata-kata bijak akan dihukum di dalam kotoran yang mendidih.

Di sini kita melihat sebuah cerita dari seorang mualaf (agama Yahudi) Onkelos yang terkenal, di mana sebelum menjadi mualaf, menggunakan sihir hitam untuk memunculkan penjahat terkenal dari sejarah dan bertanya kepada mereka apakah kejahatan mereka menyelamatkan mereka di dunia yang akan datang. Dalam kedua kasus (ada kasus ketiga Onkelos yang memanggil Titus juga) orang berdosa sedang sangat dihukum di akhirat sementara Israel sedang dihargai. Agaknya, ini membantu meyakinkan Onkelos untuk masuk agama Yahudi.

Sedangkan Yeshu di sini bukanlah Yesus dari Perjanjian Baru. Ia kemungkinan besar sektarian terkemuka awal abad pertama SM yang menyimpang dari tradisi rabi dan menciptakan agama sendiri yang menggabungkan paganisme Helenistik dengan Yudaisme. Sementara mungkin Yeshu-proto Yesus beberapa sarjana menunjuk sebagai inspirasi umat Kristen awal, dia pasti bukanlah orang yang disalibkan di Yerusalem pada tahun 33 M.

Menariknya, jika ada orang yang mengklaim bahwa Yeshu di atas adalah Yesus, maka Bileam tidak dapat juga merujuk kepada Yesus karena baik Bileam dan Yeshu berada di bagian ini bersama-sama. Dengan kata lain, ini adalah kontradiksi sendiri untuk mengklaim bahwa ayat-ayat di atas adalah tentang ibu Bileam yang menjadi pelacur atau tentang orang mati muda yang merujuk kepada Yesus dan untuk mengklaim bahwa ayat-ayat di atas mengenai Yeshu yang dihukum juga merujuk kepada Yesus. Anda tidak dapat memiliki kedua-duanya.

http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesus.html#bastard

Tentang Bileam

Bileam (Balaam) adalah peramal di dalam Kitab Taurat, ceritanya terjadi menjelang akhir dari Kitab Bilangan. Setiap referensi kuno tentang Bileam menganggap dia non-Israel, seorang nabi, dan anaka Beor, meskipun Beor tidak begitu jelas diidentifikasi. Meskipun sumber-sumber lain menggambarkan berkat-berkat positif yang ia berikan kepada Israel, ia dicaci maki sebagai "orang jahat" dalam cerita utama tentang dia. Bileam berusaha untuk mengutuk Israel, umat Allah. Ia gagal pada semua tiga percobaannya, setiap kali menghasilkan berkat, bukan kutuk (Bilangan 22-24).

2 Petrus 2:15-16 Oleh karena mereka telah meninggalkan jalan yang benar, maka tersesatlah mereka, lalu mengikuti jalan Bileam, anak Beor, yang suka menerima upah untuk perbuatan-perbuatan yang jahat. Tetapi Bileam beroleh peringatan keras untuk kejahatannya, sebab keledai beban yang bisu berbicara dengan suara manusia dan mencegah kebebalan nabi itu.

Yudas 1:11 Celakalah mereka, karena mereka mengikuti jalan yang ditempuh Kain dan karena mereka, oleh sebab upah, menceburkan diri ke dalam kesesatan Bileam, dan mereka binasa karena kedurhakaan seperti Korah.

Wahyu 2:14 Tetapi Aku mempunyai beberapa keberatan terhadap engkau: di antaramu ada beberapa orang yang menganut ajaran Bileam, yang memberi nasihat kepada Balak untuk menyesatkan orang Israel, supaya mereka makan persembahan berhala dan berbuat zinah.

TOM JERRY:

The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud

Introduction

There are four main passages in the Talmud that are alleged by some to discuss the story of Jesus' life and death. What we will do here is to analyze closely these passages and see the reasons one may or may not attribute these stories to the life of Jesus. We will also look at another two passages that help us identify our protagonist(s). We will quickly realize that there are great difficulties in stating that any of these texts refer to Jesus. We will see that a large number of historians and talmudists have addressed these issues and have concluded that either none of these passages refer to Jesus or that they refer to a proto-Jesus, whose life was later obfuscated by the theologically motivated rewriting of history.

Passages

It is important to keep in mind that there are many people in the Talmud with the same names. R. Aaron Hyman in his biographical work on the sages of the Talmud, Toldot Tannaim VeAmoraim, lists 14 Hillels, 61 Elazars, and 71 Hunas. Josephus lists approximately twenty different men named Jesus, at least ten of whom lived in the same time as the famous Jesus [cf. John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, p. 206 n. 6]. The name Panthera was also a common name in the first two centuries [cf. L. Patterson, "Origin of the Name Panthera", JTS 19 (1917-18), p. 79-80, cited in Meier, p. 107 n. 48]. When dealing with first names, it is very common to come across different people in the Talmud with the same name and the same applies today. When I refer to Bill, am I talking about the President of the United States, the billionaire founder of Microsoft, or a local celebrity? In one place I could mean one Bill and in another place a different Bill. It is therefore almost impossible to identify someone based on their first name alone. Second names, which in the Talmud means the name of the father, enable us to identify people with much better accuracy, but not entirely. It is very possible for both two men and their father's to have the same names. This makes history much harder but ignoring this fact is distorting history.

Note that the word "ben" means "son of" in Hebrew. Therefore, the name "Shimon Ben Gamaliel" means Shimon the son of Gamaliel.

Passage #1: Ben Stada

Talmud Shabbat 104b, Sanhedrin 67a

It is taught: R. Eliezer told the sages: Did not Ben Stada bring witchcraft with him from Egypt in a cut that was on his skin? They said to him: He was a fool and you cannot bring proof from a fool.

Ben Stada is Ben Pandira.

R. Chisda said: The husband was Stada and the lover was Pandira.

[No,] the husband was Pappos Ben Yehudah and the mother was Stada.

[No,] the mother was Miriam the women's hairdresser [and was called Stada]. As we say in Pumbedita: She has turned away [Stat Da] from her husband.

Summary
What we see from here is that there was a man named Ben Stada who was considered to be a practicer of black magic. His mother was named Miriam and also called Stada. His father was named Pappos Ben Yehudah. Miriam (Stada) had an affair with Pandira from which Ben Stada was born.

Proof
Some historians claim that Ben Stada, also known as Ben Pandira, was Jesus. His mother's name was Miriam which is similar to Mary. Additionally, Miriam was called a women's hairdresser, "megadla nashaia" [for this translation, see R. Meir Halevi Abulafia, Yad Rama, Sanhedrin ad. loc.]. The phrase "Miriam megadla nashaia" sounds similar to Mary Magdalene, a well-known New Testament figure.

Problems
1. Mary Magdalene was not Jesus' mother. Neither was Mary a hairdresser.
2. Jesus' step-father was Joseph. Ben Stada's step-father was Pappos Ben Yehudah.
3. Pappos Ben Yehudah is a known figure from other places in talmudic literature. The Mechilta Beshalach (Vayehi ch. 6) has him discussing Torah with Rabbi Akiva and Talmud Berachot 61b has Pappos Ben Yehudah being captured and killed by Romans along with Rabbi Akiva. Rabbi Akiva lived during the second half of the first century and the first half of the second century. He died in the year 134. If Pappos Ben Yehudah was a contemporary of Rabbi Akiva's, he must have been born well after Jesus' death and certainly could not be his father.


Passage #2: Yeshu

Talmud Sanhedrin 107b, Sotah 47a

What of R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah?

When John [Hyrcanus] the king killed the rabbis, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah [and Yeshu] went to Alexandria of Egypt. When there was peace, Shimon Ben Shetach sent to him "From me [Jerusalem] the holy city to you Alexandria of Egypt. My husband remains in your midst and I sit forsaken."

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] left and arrived at a particular inn and they showed him great respect. He said: How beautiful is this inn [Achsania, which also means innkeeper].

[Yeshu] said: Rabbi, she has narrow eyes.

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] said to him: Wicked one, this is how you engage yourself?

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] sent out four hundred trumpets and excommunicated him.

[Yeshu] came before [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] many times and said: Accept me. But [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] paid him no attention.

One day [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] was reciting Shema [during which one may not be interrupted]. [Yeshu] came before him. He was going to accept [Yeshu] and signalled to [Yeshu] with his hand. [Yeshu] thought that [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] was repelling him. He went, hung a brick, and bowed down to it.

[Yeshu] said to [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah]: You taught me that anyone who sins and causes others to sin is not given the opportunity to repent.

And the master said: Yeshu {the Notzri} practiced magic and deceive and led Israel astray.

Background and Summary
Note that historians differ on the exact years of these events. For simplicity, we will assume the latest possible dates as suggested by Gershon Tannenbaum [Jewish Time Line Encyclopedia, p. 87].

John Hyrcanus was a successful king and soldier. During a banquet celebrating his victories in 93 BCE, some Pharisee rabbis offended him and he was convinced by Sadducee leaders to try to kill every Pharisee rabbi [Hyman, vol. II pp. 691-692, 766]. Some rabbis, such as R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah and his student Yeshu, fled to Alexandria outside of John Hyrcanus's reach [Hyman vol. II pp. 647, 692]. Shimon Ben Shetach, however, was hidden in Jerusalem by his sister, Salome Alexandra, who was John Hyrcanus's daughter-in-law [Hyman, vol. II pp. 647, 692, 766, vol. III pp. 1212-1213]. The extremely diverse religious population of Palestine, full of sects such as the Essenes, Kumrans, and numerous other groups, was temporarily devoid of any public Pharisee leaders.

By the year 91 BCE, John Hyrcanus and his sons Antigonus and Aristobulos had died and his third son Alexander Janneus became king. Even though Alexander Janneus was an ardent Sadducee, his wife convinced him to appoint his Pharisaic brother-in-law, Shimon Ben Shetach, to the Sanhedrin, then dominated by Sadducees. Slowly, over the course of a number of years, Shimon Ben Shetach outshone his Sadducee opponents in the Sanhedrin and appointed his Pharisaic students as members [Hyman, vol. II pp. 766-767, vol. III pp. 1213-1214].

By the year 80 BCE it was finally safe for the Pharisee rabbis to quietly return and Shimon Ben Shetach sent a cryptic note to his mentor, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah, encouraging him to return [Hyman, vol. II pp. 647-648, vol. III pp. 1213-1214].

Some 50 to 60 years after the great Pharisaic victory of the Hasmoneans, in which Pharisees rebelled against the Greek-Syrians and gained the monarchy, these Pharisee rabbis returned to a country full of heretical sects that had either integrated aspects of Hellenist paganism into their religion or had, in an attempt to repel all unproven influence, rejected the traditions of the rabbis. The Pharisees who remembered the prominence in which they had so recently been held were now witnesses to the disintegration of their religious society.

While returning, Yeshu misunderstood one of his teacher's remarks and said something that demonstrated that he was interested in and looking at married women. As sexual promiscuity was a sign of many of the Hellenist sects, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah suspected his student of being yet another leader influenced by Hellenism and had him excommunicated [this hasty conclusion was condemned by the Talmud a few lines before our passage]. After many attempts by Yeshu to reconcile with his mentor, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah was finally ready. However, Yeshu approached him while he was reciting Shema, the most important part of the morning prayer during which he could not stop to speak. He motioned to Yeshu with his hand which was misinterpreted as a signal to go away. Yeshu finally gave up and fulfilled his teacher's suspicion. He adopted a pagan religion and went on to create his own sect of Judaism and lead many Jews astray.

Proof
Some historians note some similarities here between Yeshu and Jesus. Most notably, in one manuscript of the Talmud he is called Yeshu the Notzri which could be rendered (with only a little difficulty) Jesus the Nazarene.

Problems
1. Yeshu lived about a century before Jesus.
2. Only one of the approximately four distinct manuscripts available have the title HaNotzri (possibly, the Nazarene). None of the other manuscripts contain that title which make it suspect as a later interpolation, as medieval commentators suggest [cf. Menachem HaMeiri, Beit Habechirah, Sotah ad. loc.].
3. Notzri does not necessarily mean Nazarene. It is actually a biblical term (Jeremiah 4:16). While centuries later it was undoubtedly used to refer to Christians in the form of Notzrim or Netzarim, it could have been a term used to refer to many strong communities. The name "Ben Netzar" was used by the Talmud to refer to the famous chief of robbers Odenathus of Palmyra [see Marcus Jastrow's Dictionary p. 930]
4. The name Yeshu alone could have been common. We know that the name Jesus was common [see Collossians 4 and above].
5. Other than the name, nothing in the story fits anything we know about Jesus.

http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesusnarr.html

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..


Melalui Tulisan saya ini sebetulnya hal sederhana saja yang ingin saya sampaikan, bahwa sesungguhnya Yahudi adalah Musuh Umat Kristen dan ber-Ideologi Antichrist sejati,

namun


yang Sungguh menggelitik adalah hampir semua kaum Kristen khatolik, Protestan, dsb yg saya temukan dalam forum-forum diskusi dan dalam dunia real diluar sana berdiri sebagai pembela no wahid dari kaum Yahudi (tidak usah jauh-jauh…disini gimana?)

apakah mereka (dunia Kristen) tidak cukup pintarkah?...selama ini mereka tidak ingin menumpahkan kebencian mereka kepada dunia Kristen karena yahudi memang masih membutuhkan bantuan dan sokongan dunia Kristen untuk misi mereka.

Agar saya tidak disebut mengada-ada, berikut saya lampirkan sedikit dr demikian banyak pandangan yg mewakili dr Umat Kristen yg (sebetulnya) sadar bagaimana jahatnya Yahudi kepada mereka (umat Kristen)

1. Yesus oleh Michael Keene hal 145






2. Memandang Yesus oleh Anton Wessels hal.23






coba kita lihat bagaimana pandangan mereka terhadap Yesus dan lebih menyeluruh terhadap ajaran Kristen sendiri melalui dalil-dalil dari Yahudi sendiri:


1.Yahudi percaya bahwa satu orang tidak bisa mati untuk dosa orang lain.
Jews believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html

2.Yahudi percaya tidak memerlukan korban darah untuk pengampunan dosa.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation2.html
The God-man relationship was never limited to the animal sacrifices, nor was it ever the only means by which a human being obtained forgiveness from God for sin.

3.Yesus direbus di neraka dengan Air MAni

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus in hell where His punishment is "boiling in hot semen." (Talmud, Gittin 57a; Exhibit 202) The subject is identified as Jesus in a footnote, also in the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." (Exhibit 275)

4.Umat Kristen berperingkat tidak hanya sebagai binatang, seperti sisa umat manusia non-Talmud, tapi hampir sama seperti kutu (Bang**t mungkin lbh tepat), harus diberantas.

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.

5. Yesus anak Haram hasil perkosaan Yoseph

http://revelation2368.com/chapters/toledoth-yeshu.htm

Joseph Pandera rapes Mary

At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction.

6. Yesus Tukang Sihir (ahli Nujum)

http://watch.pair.com/HRChrist.html
"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

7. Kebangkitan Yesus dikutuk
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus' resurrection is cursed: "Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 106a; Exhibit 111)

8. Umat Kristen tempatnya di neraka direbus tinja panas
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Christians in hell (in the above passage) are punished by "boiling hot excrement" which is the punishment for all who mock "at the words of the sages" (i.e. the Talmud).

9. Model siksaan Yesus di neraka dengan meminum timah panas

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html

Jesus burned, Sanhedrin 52a (Exhibit 52); manner of burning, Yebamoth 6b (Exhibit 151), verified by Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam" (Exhibit 274). He is "lowered into dung up to his armpits then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck and the two loose ends pulled in opposite directions forcing him to open his mouth. A wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth so that it descended into his body and burnt his bowels his mouth was forced open with pinchers against his wishes (Exhibit 52) And: "The death penalty of 'burning' was executed by pouring molten lead through the condemned man's mouth into his body, burning his internal organs. (Exhibit 152)





HALALNYA NYAWA/DARAH ORANG KRISTEN KARENA DIANGGAP PENYEMBAH BERHALA OLEH "MUI"NYA YAHUDI


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
* While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.

* While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

Dan masih banyak lain cacian-cacian dan kebencian mendalam Yahudi kepada Umat Kristen, Maria, maupun Yesus.

Kenapa Yahudi Bermuka manis dalam Dunia nyata kepada Dunia Kristen?

Kenapa Kristen mati-matian membela Yahudi?

Siapakah yg bodoh?


saran saya...kalau muslim2 disini ingin dibela mati-matian oleh netter2 kristen...

silahkan bilang yesus direbus air mani, kotoran tinja, anak haram, maria diperkosa, dsb...dsb....silahkan tambahkan sendiri lah...

Untuk netter2 kristen....saya tunggu pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi thd cacian mereka kepada anda, Tuhan anda dan agama anda...

silahkan ANDA BELA YAHUDI TERHADAP ARGUMENT SAYA DI THREAD INI!

Piss wrote:

musicman wrote:Inilah Pandangan Yahudi (yg selalu dibela mati-matian oleh kristen) tentang Kristen

Khususnya Tom and Jerry sebagai pembela No.1 Yahudi..


Melalui Tulisan saya ini sebetulnya hal sederhana saja yang ingin saya sampaikan, bahwa sesungguhnya Yahudi adalah Musuh Umat Kristen dan ber-Ideologi Antichrist sejati,

namun


yang Sungguh menggelitik adalah hampir semua kaum Kristen khatolik, Protestan, dsb yg saya temukan dalam forum-forum diskusi dan dalam dunia real diluar sana berdiri sebagai pembela no wahid dari kaum Yahudi (tidak usah jauh-jauh…disini gimana?)

apakah mereka (dunia Kristen) tidak cukup pintarkah?...selama ini mereka tidak ingin menumpahkan kebencian mereka kepada dunia Kristen karena yahudi memang masih membutuhkan bantuan dan sokongan dunia Kristen untuk misi mereka.

Agar saya tidak disebut mengada-ada, berikut saya lampirkan sedikit dr demikian banyak pandangan yg mewakili dr Umat Kristen yg (sebetulnya) sadar bagaimana jahatnya Yahudi kepada mereka (umat Kristen)

1. Yesus oleh Michael Keene hal 145






2. Memandang Yesus oleh Anton Wessels hal.23






coba kita lihat bagaimana pandangan mereka terhadap Yesus dan lebih menyeluruh terhadap ajaran Kristen sendiri melalui dalil-dalil dari Yahudi sendiri:


1.Yahudi percaya bahwa satu orang tidak bisa mati untuk dosa orang lain.
Jews believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another person.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation1.html

2.Yahudi percaya tidak memerlukan korban darah untuk pengampunan dosa.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation2.html
The God-man relationship was never limited to the animal sacrifices, nor was it ever the only means by which a human being obtained forgiveness from God for sin.

3.Yesus direbus di neraka dengan Air MAni

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus in hell where His punishment is "boiling in hot semen." (Talmud, Gittin 57a; Exhibit 202) The subject is identified as Jesus in a footnote, also in the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." (Exhibit 275)

4.Umat Kristen berperingkat tidak hanya sebagai binatang, seperti sisa umat manusia non-Talmud, tapi hampir sama seperti kutu (Bang**t mungkin lbh tepat), harus diberantas.

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
The ultimate object of hatred in Talmudic Judaism is Christ, and the targets of Talmudic hatred are not just Gentile non-Jews, "the people who are like an ass slaves who are considered the property of the master" (Talmud, Kethuboth 111a). Of these non-Jews, the Christians are most insanely hated and loathed because their doctrines are the opposite of every Talmudic doctrine. They rank not just as animals, like the rest of non-Talmudic humanity, but almost as vermin, to be eradicated. Language in the Talmud is virtually exhausted to find foul and hated names for Christians.

5. Yesus anak Haram hasil perkosaan Yoseph

http://revelation2368.com/chapters/toledoth-yeshu.htm

Joseph Pandera rapes Mary

At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will. Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction.

6. Yesus Tukang Sihir (ahli Nujum)

http://watch.pair.com/HRChrist.html
"...the Toledot Yeshu relates with the most indecent details that Miriam, a hairdresser of Bethlehem,4. affianced to a young man named Jochanan, was seduced by a libertine, Joseph Panther or Pandira, and gave birth to a son whom she named Johosuah or Jeschu. According to the Talmudic authors of the Sota and the Sanhedrim, Jeschu was taken during his boyhood to Egypt, where he was initiated into the secrets doctrines of the priests, and on his return to Palestine gave himself up to the practice of magic. 5. The Toledot Yeshu, however, goes on to say that on reaching manhood, Jeschu learnt the secret of his illegitimacy, on account of which he was driven out of the Synagogue and took refuge for a time in Galilee."

7. Kebangkitan Yesus dikutuk
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Jesus' resurrection is cursed: "Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 106a; Exhibit 111)

8. Umat Kristen tempatnya di neraka direbus tinja panas
http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html
Christians in hell (in the above passage) are punished by "boiling hot excrement" which is the punishment for all who mock "at the words of the sages" (i.e. the Talmud).

9. Model siksaan Yesus di neraka dengan meminum timah panas

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/israel_the_talmud_against_jesus.html

Jesus burned, Sanhedrin 52a (Exhibit 52); manner of burning, Yebamoth 6b (Exhibit 151), verified by Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam" (Exhibit 274). He is "lowered into dung up to his armpits then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck and the two loose ends pulled in opposite directions forcing him to open his mouth. A wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth so that it descended into his body and burnt his bowels his mouth was forced open with pinchers against his wishes (Exhibit 52) And: "The death penalty of 'burning' was executed by pouring molten lead through the condemned man's mouth into his body, burning his internal organs. (Exhibit 152)





HALALNYA NYAWA/DARAH ORANG KRISTEN KARENA DIANGGAP PENYEMBAH BERHALA OLEH "MUI"NYA YAHUDI


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
* While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.

* While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

Dan masih banyak lain cacian-cacian dan kebencian mendalam Yahudi kepada Umat Kristen, Maria, maupun Yesus.

Kenapa Yahudi Bermuka manis dalam Dunia nyata kepada Dunia Kristen?

Kenapa Kristen mati-matian membela Yahudi?

Siapakah yg bodoh?


saran saya...kalau muslim2 disini ingin dibela mati-matian oleh netter2 kristen...

silahkan bilang yesus direbus air mani, kotoran tinja, anak haram, maria diperkosa, dsb...dsb....silahkan tambahkan sendiri lah...

Untuk netter2 kristen....saya tunggu pembelaan kalian kepada Yahudi thd cacian mereka kepada anda, Tuhan anda dan agama anda...

silahkan ANDA BELA YAHUDI TERHADAP ARGUMENT SAYA DI THREAD INI!

Hi hi..

Jelas menunjukkan ketidakpahaman atas relasi antara Yahudi dan Kekristenan he he...
Tapi jelas ada relasi, kalo dengan islam, ndak tahu tiba-tiba muncul dari antah berantah dan dengan arogan tuding-tuding kakaknya yang jauh lebih tua kafir hi hi.. yah itulah kalo anak bontot hi hi

Salam

Piss wrote:


Hi hi..

Jelas menunjukkan ketidakpahaman atas relasi antara Yahudi dan Kekristenan he he...
Tapi jelas ada relasi, kalo dengan islam, ndak tahu tiba-tiba muncul dari antah berantah dan dengan arogan tuding-tuding kakaknya yang jauh lebih tua kafir hi hi.. yah itulah kalo anak bontot hi hi

Salam

musicman wrote:

Piss wrote:


Hi hi..

Jelas menunjukkan ketidakpahaman atas relasi antara Yahudi dan Kekristenan he he...
Tapi jelas ada relasi, kalo dengan islam, ndak tahu tiba-tiba muncul dari antah berantah dan dengan arogan tuding-tuding kakaknya yang jauh lebih tua kafir hi hi.. yah itulah kalo anak bontot hi hi

Salam

bisa mu cuman haha hihi..
netter topeng monyet anda...

saya aja diskusi ...antara saya dan anda...di thread lain..berlagak pilon ...

saran saya....lbh baik anda minggir...

Piss wrote:

musicman wrote:

Piss wrote:


Hi hi..

Jelas menunjukkan ketidakpahaman atas relasi antara Yahudi dan Kekristenan he he...
Tapi jelas ada relasi, kalo dengan islam, ndak tahu tiba-tiba muncul dari antah berantah dan dengan arogan tuding-tuding kakaknya yang jauh lebih tua kafir hi hi.. yah itulah kalo anak bontot hi hi

Salam

bisa mu cuman haha hihi..
netter topeng monyet anda...

saya aja diskusi ...antara saya dan anda...di thread lain..berlagak pilon ...

saran saya....lbh baik anda minggir...

hi hi..

Maafkan ha ha hi hi saya...
karena saya mendapati jawaban yang lucu-lucu, dari para pemikir yang menurut para pemikir itu sendiri sudah sangat okehh he he..
Memang saya tidak pernah ambil pusing dengan semua ini, karena ini adalah perdebatan kosong yang lucu...
Tuhan tidak perlu dibela. Jangan cari agama. Cari Allah semata.



Salam

musicman wrote:Ternyata bung Tom ini benar2 ajaib yah…

Disaat teolog2 KRISTEN TIDAK RELA YESUS DIHINA TALMUD..menyatakan Talmud itu mencaci Yesus...dia maju dengan GAGAH Perkasa melawan ARUS...tidak rela disebut YAHUDI MENCACI YESUS..(ingat...membela Yahudi yg mencaci Yesus dengan ucapan yg paling HINA..)

Gini yah bung tom….link2 saya…dalil2 saya..semua diatas…sudah, meyakinkan di AMINI oleh seorang GURU BESAR TEOLOG…dan diterbitkan di BPK GUNUNG MULIA…semua terangkum dalam pendapatnya..

kita liat...VALIDITAS PENDUKUNG ARGUMENT MU dan ARGUMENT SAYA (DIDUKUNG UMAT KRISTEN JUGA LHO)...

Saya ulang pernyataan beliau yah..




Yuk..kita liat profilenya



seorang GURU BESAR TEOLOGI BELANDA..


nah ..referensi anda yg membela mati2an Yahudi TIDAK mencaci Yesus..


Saya klik namanya malah masuk ke yahoo.mail??

ups...ANTON WESSELS (Guru besar Teolog Belanda)vs Gil Student (......?)

siapa nih...si Gil Student?

Saya miss sama nih orang...gk jelas...

Jangan sampai Gembel main Internet...trus anda jadikan referensi lho...saking Relanya Tuhan Yesus anda Dicaci maki..

Gil....gil.....Who are U?
Teolog, pengamen jalanan, penyanyi, tukang obat..atau siapa TOM?

Ada dua pendapat dari para sarjana Teolog (Kristen) dan juga para rabi (Yahudi) mengenai Talmud, terutama Talmud Babylonia yg isinya diduga menghina Yesus, orang2 Kristen, dan orang2 Non Yahudi lainnya...
ANTON WESSELS >>> Guru besar Teolog Belanda... seorang Kristen yg percaya akan hal ini...
Kalo nama besar jadi tolok ukur, kenapa anda ngak coba cari pendapatnya Paus Benedictus >>> Pemimpin Besar umat Katolik sedunia...??? (beliau yang memimpin tafsir kitab suci).... mungkin aja beliau bikin website pribadi sendiri...

Tentang Gil Student, seorang rabi Yahudi Ortodoks, nih ada profilnya di wikiped:

Gil Student
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Gil Student
Born August 8, 1972
Occupation Finance, Publisher, blogger
Religion Modern Orthodox Judaism

Gil Ofer Student (born August 8, 1972) is the Managing Editor of OU Press,[1] and an Orthodox Jewish blogger who writes about the interface between different facets of Judaism, specifically Orthodox Judaism and Modern Orthodox Judaism, including modern, controversial topics. He is an ordained non-pulpit serving Orthodox rabbi.

[edit] Biography

Student was raised in Teaneck, New Jersey, where his parents still live. In his youth, he attended a Conservative Jewish synagogue.[2] He credits his attendance of an Orthodox Jewish high school for his now being "better off".[3] He is an alumnus of Solomon Schechter elementary school and Frisch School,[4] and a baal teshuva.[5] A 1994 graduate of Yeshiva College, Yeshiva University, Gil Student is listed in the 2005 alumni directory[6] as a rabbi and a quantitative analyst who works in financial reinsurance and lives in the Marine Park section of Brooklyn, New York and is a member of the Kehilas Marine Park synagogue, led by Rabbi Baruch Pesach Mendelson. He is married and has four children.
[edit] Writing, blogging and publishing

Student's writings appear mainly on the Internet on his blog, Hirhurim Musings.[7] They also appear in newspapers and journals on a variety of Judaic topics including Jewish medical ethics[8] and Yeshiva University.[9]

The Hirhurim blog was ranked "Best Jewish Religion Blog" and #3 in categories "Best Series" and "Best Overall Blog" for 2005 by The Jerusalem Post[10] and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal for declining to run an ad for "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. He has received other recognition for his blogging and views by Yeshiva University's student newspapers The Commentator[11][12] and The Observer.[13]

Student owns and operates a small Jewish publishing house, Yashar Books, that, in addition to traditional Orthodox scholarly works, distributes the writings of Orthodox thinkers who defy the accepted norms of publications in the Haredi world; the latter include works that were previously distributed by prominent publishers such as Feldheim.

His publishing company has undertaken to distribute the works of Rabbi Natan Slifkin whose books were banned by many Haredi rabbis as well as other works that are not openly approved by the Haredi mainstream rabbinate.[14][15] In explaining his defense of Slifkin and his willingness to publish Slifkin's books, Student wrote in The Jewish Press, "The Jewish community is no stranger to conflict. Some controversies, however, transcend their local concern and reverberate in ways originally unintended. I believe we have witnessed such an event with the recent controversy surrounding three books about Torah and science by Rabbi Natan (Nosson) Slifkin. The bans promulgated on his books have come to represent more than just disapproval of those specific works; they have come to signify the lack of centralized rabbinic authority in our globalized world and the increased empowerment of the individual afforded by the Internet."[16]
[edit] Defending the Talmud

Student has written defending the Talmud against those who claim that it defames gentiles or Jesus. On the Internet, one of Student's sites called "Talmud: The Real Truth About The Talmud" states its objective:

There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud.[17]

Key areas discussed with relevant sources include:

About the Talmud
Alleged racism in the Talmud
Talmud's view of Jesus' personalities.
Jewish holidays
Immorality in the Talmud

[edit] Position on Modern and Haredi Orthodoxy

Though his stance in the Slifkin controversy put him at odds with much of the Haredi world, Student nevertheless opposes many trends within Modern Orthodoxy, especially regarding women's issues (e.g. women's prayer groups), taking a particularly strong stance against the now-defunct Edah organization;[18] and other groups.

In his personal life, Student remains involved with both the Haredi and Modern Orthodox worlds in Brooklyn. According to Student, "I live in a moderate Haredi neighborhood, attend Haredi synagogues, send my children to moderate Haredi schools but still maintain professional and friendly relations with the Modern Orthodox world."[19]
[edit] Critique of Lubavitch views

He has written on Chabad messianism in opposition to the claim by some Chabad Hasidim that the last Lubavitcher Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, may have been the long-awaited Jewish Messiah (i.e. the Moshiach).[20]

He has received both criticism and praise for his self-published book Can The Rebbe Be Moshiach?[20] described as "Proofs from Gemara, Midrash, and Rambam that the Lubavitcher Rebbe cannot be Moshiach".

In an interview with The Jewish Press[21] in September 2009, in response to a question if he can talk about his opinions on the Lubavitcher rebbe not being Moshiach, he replied,

I actually prefer not to. People get very offended by it. I wrote the book for ba'alei teshuvah to let them know that there's more than one perspective on the issue. I have no interest in fighting with Lubavitch.

[edit] Attention on the Internet

Student is often cited by rabbis belonging to the Rabbinical Council of America,[22] and eminent writers frequently respond to Student's writings and statements on their own websites and blogs. Richard John Neuhaus, responding to a blog post by Student on the New American Bible, writes:

Over on a blog called Hirhurim Musings, a Torah scholar by the name of Gil Student takes on my critique of the Catholic translation known as the New American Bible (NAB) in the current issue of FIRST THINGS. He admits that he’s not familiar with the NAB and is, in fact, not much interested in English translations of the Bible, but, picking up on some of the examples I cite in my essay 'Bible Babel,' he comes to the defense of the NAB translators.[23]

The publishers of American Theocracy, discussing the role of women in Judaism, write, "Rabbi Gil Student’s Hirhurim Musings, described as the Best Jewish Religion Blog of 2005 by the Jerusalem Post, had this to say on Dec. 31, 2004: 'It must be remembered that a substantial segment of the Orthodox community considers the advanced learning of the Torah by women to be forbidden.'"[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Student

TOM JERRY WROTE:
HALALNYA NYAWA/DARAH ORANG KRISTEN KARENA DIANGGAP PENYEMBAH BERHALA OLEH "MUI"NYA YAHUDI


http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
* While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.

* While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

Ada dua pendapat dari para sarjana Teolog (Kristen) dan juga para rabi (Yahudi) mengenai Talmud, terutama Talmud Babylonia yg isinya diduga menghina Yesus, orang2 Kristen, dan orang2 Non Yahudi lainnya...
ANTON WESSELS >>> Guru besar Teolog Belanda... seorang Kristen yg percaya akan hal ini...

Tentang Gil Student, seorang rabi Yahudi Ortodoks, nih ada profilnya di wikiped:

Gil Student
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Gil Student
Born August 8, 1972
Occupation Finance, Publisher, blogger
Religion Modern Orthodox Judaism

Gil Ofer Student (born August 8, 1972) is the Managing Editor of OU Press,[1] and an Orthodox Jewish blogger who writes about the interface between different facets of Judaism, specifically Orthodox Judaism and Modern Orthodox Judaism, including modern, controversial topics. He is an ordained non-pulpit serving Orthodox rabbi.

[edit] Biography

Student was raised in Teaneck, New Jersey, where his parents still live. In his youth, he attended a Conservative Jewish synagogue.[2] He credits his attendance of an Orthodox Jewish high school for his now being "better off".[3] He is an alumnus of Solomon Schechter elementary school and Frisch School,[4] and a baal teshuva.[5] A 1994 graduate of Yeshiva College, Yeshiva University, Gil Student is listed in the 2005 alumni directory[6] as a rabbi and a quantitative analyst who works in financial reinsurance and lives in the Marine Park section of Brooklyn, New York and is a member of the Kehilas Marine Park synagogue, led by Rabbi Baruch Pesach Mendelson. He is married and has four children.
[edit] Writing, blogging and publishing

Student's writings appear mainly on the Internet on his blog, Hirhurim Musings.[7] They also appear in newspapers and journals on a variety of Judaic topics including Jewish medical ethics[8] and Yeshiva University.[9]

The Hirhurim blog was ranked "Best Jewish Religion Blog" and #3 in categories "Best Series" and "Best Overall Blog" for 2005 by The Jerusalem Post[10] and has been cited in The Wall Street Journal for declining to run an ad for "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. He has received other recognition for his blogging and views by Yeshiva University's student newspapers The Commentator[11][12] and The Observer.[13]

Student owns and operates a small Jewish publishing house, Yashar Books, that, in addition to traditional Orthodox scholarly works, distributes the writings of Orthodox thinkers who defy the accepted norms of publications in the Haredi world; the latter include works that were previously distributed by prominent publishers such as Feldheim.

His publishing company has undertaken to distribute the works of Rabbi Natan Slifkin whose books were banned by many Haredi rabbis as well as other works that are not openly approved by the Haredi mainstream rabbinate.[14][15] In explaining his defense of Slifkin and his willingness to publish Slifkin's books, Student wrote in The Jewish Press, "The Jewish community is no stranger to conflict. Some controversies, however, transcend their local concern and reverberate in ways originally unintended. I believe we have witnessed such an event with the recent controversy surrounding three books about Torah and science by Rabbi Natan (Nosson) Slifkin. The bans promulgated on his books have come to represent more than just disapproval of those specific works; they have come to signify the lack of centralized rabbinic authority in our globalized world and the increased empowerment of the individual afforded by the Internet."[16]
[edit] Defending the Talmud

Student has written defending the Talmud against those who claim that it defames gentiles or Jesus. On the Internet, one of Student's sites called "Talmud: The Real Truth About The Talmud" states its objective:

There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud.[17]

Key areas discussed with relevant sources include:

About the Talmud
Alleged racism in the Talmud
Talmud's view of Jesus' personalities.
Jewish holidays
Immorality in the Talmud

[edit] Position on Modern and Haredi Orthodoxy

Though his stance in the Slifkin controversy put him at odds with much of the Haredi world, Student nevertheless opposes many trends within Modern Orthodoxy, especially regarding women's issues (e.g. women's prayer groups), taking a particularly strong stance against the now-defunct Edah organization;[18] and other groups.

In his personal life, Student remains involved with both the Haredi and Modern Orthodox worlds in Brooklyn. According to Student, "I live in a moderate Haredi neighborhood, attend Haredi synagogues, send my children to moderate Haredi schools but still maintain professional and friendly relations with the Modern Orthodox world."[19]
[edit] Critique of Lubavitch views

He has written on Chabad messianism in opposition to the claim by some Chabad Hasidim that the last Lubavitcher Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, may have been the long-awaited Jewish Messiah (i.e. the Moshiach).[20]

He has received both criticism and praise for his self-published book Can The Rebbe Be Moshiach?[20] described as "Proofs from Gemara, Midrash, and Rambam that the Lubavitcher Rebbe cannot be Moshiach".

In an interview with The Jewish Press[21] in September 2009, in response to a question if he can talk about his opinions on the Lubavitcher rebbe not being Moshiach, he replied,

I actually prefer not to. People get very offended by it. I wrote the book for ba'alei teshuvah to let them know that there's more than one perspective on the issue. I have no interest in fighting with Lubavitch.

[edit] Attention on the Internet

Student is often cited by rabbis belonging to the Rabbinical Council of America,[22] and eminent writers frequently respond to Student's writings and statements on their own websites and blogs. Richard John Neuhaus, responding to a blog post by Student on the New American Bible, writes:

Over on a blog called Hirhurim Musings, a Torah scholar by the name of Gil Student takes on my critique of the Catholic translation known as the New American Bible (NAB) in the current issue of FIRST THINGS. He admits that he’s not familiar with the NAB and is, in fact, not much interested in English translations of the Bible, but, picking up on some of the examples I cite in my essay 'Bible Babel,' he comes to the defense of the NAB translators.[23]

The publishers of American Theocracy, discussing the role of women in Judaism, write, "Rabbi Gil Student’s Hirhurim Musings, described as the Best Jewish Religion Blog of 2005 by the Jerusalem Post, had this to say on Dec. 31, 2004: 'It must be remembered that a substantial segment of the Orthodox community considers the advanced learning of the Torah by women to be forbidden.'"[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Student

Narasi Yesus dalam Talmud

Pengantar

Ada empat bagian utama dalam Talmud yang diduga oleh beberapa pihak membahas kisah kehidupan dan kematian Yesus. Apa yang akan kami lakukan di sini adalah untuk menganalisis erat bagian ini dan melihat satu alasan mungkin atau tidak mungkin mengatributkan kisah-kisah ini dengan kehidupan Yesus. Kami juga akan melihat dua bagian yang membantu kami mengidentifikasi protagonis kita (s). Kami akan cepat menyadari bahwa ada kesulitan besar dalam menyatakan bahwa teks ini merujuk kepada Yesus. Kita akan melihat bahwa sejumlah besar sejarawan dan Talmud telah membahas masalah ini dan telah menyimpulkan bahwa tidak satupun dari bagian ini merujuk kepada Yesus atau bahwa mereka merujuk kepada-proto Yesus, yang hidupnya kemudian dikaburkan oleh secara teologis termotivasi menulis ulang sejarah. ]

Bagian

Penting untuk diingat bahwa ada banyak orang di Talmud dengan nama yang sama. R. Harun Hyman dalam karya biografi tentang kata2 bijak dari Talmud, Toldot Tannaim VeAmoraim, membuat daftar nama 14 Hillels, 61 Elazars, dan 71 Hunas. Josephus membuat daftar sekitar dua puluh orang yang berbeda yang bernama Yesus, setidaknya sepuluh di antaranya hidup di waktu yang sama dengan Yesus yang terkenal [John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, p. 206 n. 6]. Nama Panthera juga merupakan nama umum dalam dua abad pertama [L. Patterson, "Origin of the Name Panthera", JTS 19 (1917-18), p. 79-80, cited in Meier, p. 107 n. 48]. Ketika berurusan dengan nama-nama depan, adalah sangat umum menemukan orang-orang yang berbeda di Talmud dengan nama yang sama dan hal yang sama berlaku saat ini. Ketika saya merujuk Bill, apakah saya berbicara tentang mantan Presiden Amerika Serikat, miliarder pendiri dari Microsoft, atau selebriti lokal? Di satu tempat saya bisa berarti satu Bill dan di tempat lain Bill berbeda. Oleh karena itu hampir tidak mungkin untuk mengidentifikasi seseorang berdasarkan nama depan mereka sendiri. Nama-nama belakang, yang dalam Talmud adalah nama dari ayah, memungkinkan kita untuk mengidentifikasi orang dengan akurasi yang jauh lebih baik, tetapi tidak sepenuhnya. Hal ini sangat mungkin bagi kedua dua orang dan ayah mereka memiliki nama yang sama. Hal ini membuat sejarah lebih sulit tetapi mengabaikan fakta ini adalah mendistorsi sejarah.

Perhatikan bahwa kata "ben" berarti "anak" dalam bahasa Ibrani. Oleh karena itu, nama "Shimon Ben Gamaliel" berarti Shimon bin Gamaliel.


Bagian # 1: Ben Stada

Talmud Shabbat 104b, Sanhedrin 67a

Diajarkan sbb: R. Eliezer mengatakan kepada orang-orang bijak: Apakah Ben Stada tidak membawa sihir besertanya dari Mesir pada luka yang di kulitnya? Mereka berkata kepadanya: Ia adalah orang bodoh dan engkau tidak bisa membawa bukti dari orang bodoh.

Ben Stada adalah Ben Pandira.

R. Chisda berkata: suami itu Stada dan kekasih itu Pandira.

[Tidak,] suami itu Pappos Ben Yehudah dan ibu itu Stada.

[Tidak,] ibu itu Miriam penata rambut perempuan [dan disebut Stada]. Seperti yang kita katakan di Pumbedita: Ia telah berbalik [Stat Da] dari suaminya.

Ringkasan

Apa yang kita lihat dari sini adalah bahwa ada seorang pria bernama Ben Stada yang dianggap sebagai praktisi ilmu hitam. Ibunya bernama Miriam dan juga disebut Stada. Ayahnya bernama Pappos Ben Yehudah. Miriam (Stada) berselingkuh dengan Pandira dari mana Ben Stada dilahirkan.

Bukti

Beberapa sejarawan mengklaim bahwa Ben Stada, juga dikenal sebagai Ben Pandira, adalah Yesus. nama Ibunya adalah Miriam yang mirip dengan Maria. Selain itu, Miriam disebut penata rambut perempuan, "megadla nashaia" [untuk terjemahan ini, lihat R. Meir Halevi Abulafia, Yad Rama, Sanhedrin ad. loc.]. Ungkapan "Miriam megadla nashaia" terdengar mirip dengan Maria Magdalena, seorang tokoh terkenal Perjanjian Baru.

Masalah

1. Maria Magdalena bukanlah ibu Yesus. Maria juga bukanlah penata rambut.
2. Ayah tiri Yesus adalah Yusuf (Joseph). Ayah tiri Ben Stada adalah Pappos Ben Yehudah.
3. Pappos Ben Yehudah adalah sosok yang dikenal dari tempat lain dalam sastra Talmud. The Beshalach Mechilta (Vayehi ch 6.) memuat dia yang sedang mendiskusikan Taurat dengan Rabi Akiva dan Talmud Berachot 61b memuat kisah Pappos Ben Yehudah ditangkap dan dibunuh oleh orang-orang Romawi bersama dengan Rabi Akiva. Rabi Akiva hidup pada paruh kedua abad pertama dan paruh pertama abad kedua. Ia meninggal pada tahun 134. Jika Pappos Ben Yehudah adalah kontemporer dari Rabi Akiva, ia harus lahir baik setelah kematian Yesus dan tentunya tidak bisa menjadi ayahnya.


Bagian # 2: Yeshu

Talmud Sanhedrin 107b, 47a Sotah

Bagaimana dengan R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah?

Ketika raja John [Hyrcanus] membunuh para rabi, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah [dan Yeshu] pergi ke Alexandria Mesir. Ketika ada perdamaian, Shimon Ben Shetach diutus kepadanya "Dari aku [Yerusalem] kota kudus kepada engkau Alexandria Mesir. Suamiku bertahan di tengah-tengahmu dan aku duduk ditinggalkan."

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] bertolak dan tiba di sebuah penginapan tertentu dan mereka menunjukkan rasa hormat yang besar. Ia berkata: Betapa indahnya penginapan ini [Achsania, yang juga berarti pemilik penginapan].

[Yeshu] berkata: Rabi, ia memiliki mata yang sipit.

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] berkata kepadanya: Seorang fasik, inikah bagaimana engkau melibatkan diri?

[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] mengirim keluar empat ratus terompet dan mengucilkan dia.

[Yeshu] datang sebelum [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] berkali-kali dan berkata: Terimalah aku. Tetapi [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] menaruh perhatian kepadanya.

Suatu hari [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] sedang membacakan Shema [selama salah satu yang mungkin tidak terganggu]. [Yeshu] datang menghadap dia. Ia akan menerima [Yeshu] dan member isyarat kepada [Yeshu] dengan tangannya. [Yeshu] berpikir bahwa [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] telah memukul mundur dia. Ia pergi, menggantung batu bata, dan sujud ke arahnya.

[Yeshu] berkata kepada [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah]: Engkau mengajarkan kepadaku bahwa barangsiapa yang berdosa dan menyebabkan orang-orang lain berdosa tidak diberikan kesempatan untuk bertobat.

Dan sang guru besar berkata: Yeshu {sang Notzri} melakukan sihir dan menipu dan membawa Israel kepada kesesatan.

Latar Belakang dan Ringkasan

Perhatikan bahwa sejarawan-sejarawan berbeda pada tahun-tahun yang tepat dari peristiwa ini. Untuk mempermudah, kita akan mengasumsikan kemungkinan tanggal terakhir seperti yang disarankan oleh Gerson Tannenbaum [Yahudi Time Line Encyclopedia, p. 87].

John Hyrcanus adalah seorang raja dan prajurit yang sukses. Selama pesta merayakan kemenangannya pada 93 SM, beberapa rabi Farisi menyinggungnya dan ia diyakini oleh para pemimpin Saduki untuk mencoba membunuh setiap rabi Farisi [Hyman, vol. II pp. 691-692, 766]. Beberapa rabi, seperti R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah dan muridnya Yeshu, melarikan diri ke Alexandria di luar jangkauan John Hyrcanus [Hyman vol. II pp. 647, 692]. Ben Shimon Shetach, bagaimanapun, bersembunyi di Yerusalem oleh kakaknya, Salome Alexandra, yang merupakan putri menantu John Hyrcanus [Hyman, vol. II pp. 647, 692, 766, vol. III pp. 1212-1213]. Populasi agama di Palestina sangat beragam, penuh sekte-sekte seperti kaum Eseni, Kumran, dan kelompok-kelompok lain yang banyak, sementara tanpa seorangpun pemimpin Farisi publik.

Pada tahun 91 SM, John Hyrcanus dan putra-putranya Antigonus dan Aristobulos telah meninggal dan putra ketiganya Alexander Janneus menjadi raja. Meskipun Alexander Janneus adalah seorang Saduki yang bersemangat, istrinya meyakinkan dia untuk menunjuk saudara ipar Farisinya, Shimon Ben Shetach, kepada Sanhedrin (Mahkamah Agama), kemudian didominasi oleh orang-orang Saduki. Perlahan-lahan, selama beberapa tahun, Shimon Ben Shetach semakin bersinar melawan Saduki dalam Sanhedrin dan menunjuk murid-murid Farisinya sebagai anggota [Hyman, vol. II pp. 766-767, vol. III pp. 1213-1214].

Pada tahun 80 SM akhirnya aman bagi para rabi Farisi untuk diam-diam kembali dan Shimon Ben Shetach mengirim nota samar untuk mentornya, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah, mendorong dia untuk kembali [Hyman, vol. II pp. 647-648, vol. III pp. 1213-1214].

Sekitar 50 sampai 60 tahun setelah kemenangan besar Farisi dari keluarga Hasmonea, di mana orang-orang Farisi memberontak terhadap orang-orang Suriah-Yunani dan memperoleh monarki, para rabi Farisi ini kembali ke negara yang penuh sekte sesat yang telah terintegrasi baik aspek paganisme Hellenist ke dalam agama mereka atau telah, dalam upaya untuk mengusir semua pengaruh yang belum terbukti, menolak tradisi para rabi. Orang-orang Farisi yang mengingat keunggulan di mana mereka telah baru saja dipegang kini menjadi saksi disintegrasi masyarakat agama mereka.

Ketika kembali, Yeshu menyalahpahami salah satu pernyataan gurunya dan mengatakan sesuatu yang menunjukkan bahwa ia tertarik dan melihat perempuan yang menikah. Karena seks bebas merupakan tanda dari banyak sekte-sekte Hellenist, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah mencurigai muridnya menjadi pemimpin lain yang dipengaruhi oleh Hellenisme dan telah mengucilkan dia [kesimpulan yang terburu-buru ini dikutuk oleh Talmud beberapa baris sebelum bagian kami]. Setelah banyak usaha oleh Yeshu untuk berdamai dengan mentornya, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah pada akhirnya siap. Namun, Yeshu mendekatinya sambil membaca Shema, bagian yang paling penting dari doa pagi selama di mana ia tidak bisa berhenti untuk berbicara. Ia menunjuk Yeshu dengan tangannya yang disalahartikan sebagai sinyal untuk pergi. Yeshu akhirnya menyerah dan memenuhi kecurigaan gurunya. Ia mengadopsi agama pagan dan melanjutkan untuk membuat sektenya sendiri dari Yudaisme (agama Yahudi) dan membuat banyak orang Yahudi sesat.

Bukti

Beberapa sejarawan mencatat beberapa kesamaan di sini antara Yeshu dan Yesus. Terutama, dalam satu naskah Talmud ia disebut Yeshu sang Notzri yang dapat dijadikan (dengan hanya kesulitan kecil) Yesus dari Nazaret.

Masalah

1. Yeshu hidup sekitar satu abad sebelum Yesus.

2. Hanya satu dari sekitar empat naskah yang berbeda yang tersedia memiliki judul HaNotzri (mungkin, dari orang Nazaret). Tak satu pun dari naskah-naskah lainnya yang mengandung gelar tersebut yang membuatnya tersangka sebagai sebuah interpolasi kemudian, seperti komentator abad pertengahan sarankan [cf. Menachem HaMeiri, Beit Habechirah, Sotah ad. loc.].

3. Notzri tidak selalu berarti orang Nazaret. Hal ini sebenarnya istilah Alkitab (Yeremia 4:16). Meskipun berabad-abad kemudian ia tanpa diragukan lagi digunakan untuk merujuk kepada orang-orang Kristen dalam bentuk Notzrim atau Netzarim, itu bisa saja istilah yang digunakan untuk merujuk kepada banyak komunitas yang kuat. Nama "Ben Netzar" digunakan oleh Talmud untuk merujuk kepada kepala perampok yang terkenal Odenathus dari Palmyra [lihat Marcus Jastrow's Dictionary p. 930]

4. Nama Yeshu sendiri bisa saja umum. Kita tahu bahwa Yesus adalah nama umum [lihat Kolose 4 dan di atas].

5. Selain nama, tidak ada di dalam kisah cocok dengan apa yang kita ketahui tentang Yesus.

Tom Jerry wrote:Tolong dicatat kalo saya sering memposting artikel2 tentang Israel-Palestina dan agama Yahudi, bukanlah berarti saya pembela Yahudi mati2an...!!!

Masalah Israel-Palestina saya angkat karena sangat menarik di mana seluruh dunia Muslim percaya Israel menjajah Palestina... Ini menggelikan...!!! Di sinilah kita bisa buktikan bahwa Islam itu salah...!!!
Kalo masalah duniawi macam Israel-Palestina saja Islam salah, bagaimana kita bisa percaya Islam adalah agama yang benar untuk masalah akherat...!!!

Selain itu jika nama Israel selalu jelek di mata dunia terutama Non Kristen, akan mempengaruhi hikmat Kekristenan yang memuat kisah-kisah di tanah Israel: Betlehem, Nasaret, Yerusalem, Galilea, dsb.

Agama Yahudi harus kita pahami karena Kekristenan merupakan kelanjutan agama Yahudi... penggenapan nubuat nabi2 Yahudi di dalam Kitab Suci...

Gitu maksudnya bung musicman yang cerdas...

lihd wrote:

Tom Jerry wrote:Tolong dicatat kalo saya sering memposting artikel2 tentang Israel-Palestina dan agama Yahudi, bukanlah berarti saya pembela Yahudi mati2an...!!!

Masalah Israel-Palestina saya angkat karena sangat menarik di mana seluruh dunia Muslim percaya Israel menjajah Palestina... Ini menggelikan...!!! Di sinilah kita bisa buktikan bahwa Islam itu salah...!!!
Kalo masalah duniawi macam Israel-Palestina saja Islam salah, bagaimana kita bisa percaya Islam adalah agama yang benar untuk masalah akherat...!!!

Selain itu jika nama Israel selalu jelek di mata dunia terutama Non Kristen, akan mempengaruhi hikmat Kekristenan yang memuat kisah-kisah di tanah Israel: Betlehem, Nasaret, Yerusalem, Galilea, dsb.

Agama Yahudi harus kita pahami karena Kekristenan merupakan kelanjutan agama Yahudi... penggenapan nubuat nabi2 Yahudi di dalam Kitab Suci...

Gitu maksudnya bung musicman yang cerdas...

Hihihihihi... sekarang ga membela toh??? Hihihihihi....
Btw... sejak kapan Kristen sebagai penerus agama Yahudi ya???

Gak_Mau_DiSembah wrote:
wah pipis ditantang nunjukin korelasi antara Yahudi dan kristen neh...
jelas beda lah....
Tuhannya kristen gak di akui oleh Yahudi soalnya....
Malah jelas2 di maki....
Coba kl Islam, Nabi Isa sangat dijunjung tinggi kehormatannya....

mistik6666 wrote:

dalam kitab 'suci', Talmudz wrote:
"Yesus adalah bajingan lahir perzinahan." (Yebamoth 49b, p.324).
"Maria adalah seorang wanita pelacur: Yesus (Bileam) adalah orang jahat." (Sanhedrin 106a] & b, p.725).
"Yesus adalah seorang penyihir dan bodoh. Maria adalah perempuan yang berzinah". (Shabbath 104b, p.504).
Juga dalam catatan kaki # 2 untuk Shabbath 104b dinyatakan bahwa dalam teks "uncensored" Talmud ditulis bahwa ibu Yesus, "Miriam penata rambut," telah berhubungan seks dengan banyak orang.

pertanyaannya, siapakah Yesus/Billeam/Yesu dan Maria/Mirriam/Marry yang ada dalam kitab tersebut?

musicman wrote:mumpung baba lg nangkring...


"Ba.....Yahudi itu Rasis atau ngga ba?"


siapa tau dia mau bantah...

musicman wrote:

mistik6666 wrote:

dalam kitab 'suci', Talmudz wrote:
"Yesus adalah bajingan lahir perzinahan." (Yebamoth 49b, p.324).
"Maria adalah seorang wanita pelacur: Yesus (Bileam) adalah orang jahat." (Sanhedrin 106a] & b, p.725).
"Yesus adalah seorang penyihir dan bodoh. Maria adalah perempuan yang berzinah". (Shabbath 104b, p.504).
Juga dalam catatan kaki # 2 untuk Shabbath 104b dinyatakan bahwa dalam teks "uncensored" Talmud ditulis bahwa ibu Yesus, "Miriam penata rambut," telah berhubungan seks dengan banyak orang.

pertanyaannya, siapakah Yesus/Billeam/Yesu dan Maria/Mirriam/Marry yang ada dalam kitab tersebut?

silahkan baca ....belum ada yg bisa bantah lagi...
sudah terjawab mas mistik